Comments on: Where Does the Gospel Start?

By: Why Evangelism Gives Us the Creeps — Ben Sternke

Why Evangelism Gives Us the Creeps — Ben Sternke — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:03:42 +0000

[...] few days ago I wrote about where the story of the Gospel really starts, which is an important question. But for most of the kinds of people that populate our community, [...]

By: Twitted by jrrozko

Twitted by jrrozko — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:45:20 +0000

[...] This post was Twitted by jrrozko [...]

By: Ferg

Ferg — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 11:35:33 +0000

I’m with Jon, first time comment. Enjoy reading your posts.

Here’s a version of the gospel that I hear quite a lot…
Good News everyone. God has a love hate relationship with you and pretty much wants to send you to hell BUT if you admit you’re a worthless piece of garbage and say a prayer right now his son Jesus might just sneak you in the back door. You’ll spend the rest of your life trying to please a God who you think doesn’t like you very much, you’ll constantly fail but if you’re one of his chosen few don’t worry you’ll get there in the end.

Yeah I think this kind of gospel message needs changing. Let’s start from the beginning with a Father who is passionate about his creation. Sin is huge but God’s love is bigger. What’s the point in convincing people they’re sinners when we rarely demonstrate that more importantly there is a Father in heaven who loves them more than they can possibly comprehend. A balance perhaps but a message of love and reconciliation always wins out for me when I’m sharing Jesus with people.

Jon…you must be familiar with Baxter Kruger; he’s the man!

By: Maria Kirby

Maria Kirby — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:58:21 +0000

I disagree with you about #1. based on things Jesus said about if we loose our life, we will find it and his admonishment to take up our cross and follow him. I believe that in America that we have made an idol out of life and do not value death, pain, or suffering. But it is through these means that God brings salvation, patience, joy, and many other spiritual gifts. As we participate in the life and death of Christ, we receive his grace and become like him. It is the resurrection that has transformed death from a means of enslavement to evil to a means of freedom and life in Christ.

For clarity on #2, I don’t believe the transformation is an exchange for, but a result of doing God’s will. Let me remind you that in both the gospel of Matthew and Luke, Jesus promised eternal life for those who kept the commands of loving God and neighbor. I fully admit that keeping those commands are not possible without Christ’s grace, but neither is it possible to keep those command without doing something.

By: Ben Sternke

Ben Sternke — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:27:05 +0000

Agreed, Todd. It changes everything.

By: Ben Sternke

Ben Sternke — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:26:40 +0000

Thanks for the comment, Jon. Good to have your voice on the blog!

By: Ben Sternke

Ben Sternke — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:15:52 +0000

I think I understand what you’re saying, Maria, but I would disagree on a couple points, 1) that entropy and death are part of the way God created things. It seems to me that in the New Testament, death is never seen as a “good thing” to be embraced with grace, but always as an enemy that is to be defeated.

And 2) I don’t think that our lives are transformed “in return” for doing God’s will. I believe we are transformed because of what Christ did, and we get caught up in it by his grace.

By: Jon

Jon — Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:05:38 +0000

Long time reader…….first time writer…………I agree with you Ben, the Gospel is rooted in the Trinity and Gods good creation. That’s the best place to start. The goal of creation was to bring humanity into the communion of the Trinity. God invites us to participate in the dance of the trinity, the perichoresis, if you will. We were created to enjoy the relationship that God is in the “trinity”. All humanity was created to flow to God and be joined to God. If we begin with fallen man we loose sight of the larger narrative of the story that is much richer, more deeper, and wider than we can imagine………………..I must confess I favor more of an Irenaeus perspective than Tertullian or Orgin……..God bless…….always enjoy your blogs…….

By: Maria Kirby

Maria Kirby — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 19:48:11 +0000

What I am trying to say is that God’s good creation doesn’t exist without entropy and death. In this world, it’s not possible to have one without the other.

I agree that “the resurrection is God’s victory over death AND entropy”. However, that victory brought a new order of things, NOT a transformation of the old. That is not to say that I don’t believe that God transforms us or that this earthly existence will not be redeemed, but that the transformation process is one where we give up the present, whether it’s our rights, our possessions, our privileges, what have you for the sake of doing God’s will in our earthly existence and in return receive an eternal transformed existence. In other words, as we lay down our lives for the redemption of this world, our lives are transformed into an eternal life which does not obey the same rules of entropy, but which we also live.

By: Todd Hiestand

Todd Hiestand — Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:31:47 +0000

Ben, good stuff. this tranformation in thinking has taken place for me over the past 10 years and has significantly changed my entire outlook on everything from church to raising my family to my own personal faith.